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#15534 - 04/23/04 10:53 AM
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#15535 - 04/23/04 02:17 PM
Re: confederate flag
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Steppenwolf
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Some people believe that it doesn't represent hate, and some argue that the brand of "Southern Pride" associated with the Civil War stands for a set of values independent from racism.
To some degree they're correct, but I have always believed that this view is fundamentally flawed, and I think that the confederate flag is utterly offensive.
In particular, whether or not some Southerners are willing to admit it, the Civil War was fundamentally about racism and slavery. Occasionally, you will hear arguments that the Civil War was about federalism and state rights, but I ask everyone holding such views to examine them for a minute. Why did the issues of federalism and state rights become so prominent in the mid 19th century South, and in the Civil Rights Era South (broadly, 1950s-70s)? The underlying motivation was that states wanted the "right" to have slaves and to discriminate against blacks. If you examine the foundations of any Southern legal theory concerning state rights, you will undoubtedly note that racism motivated this line of thinking.
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#15536 - 04/23/04 06:36 PM
Re: confederate flag
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websexinfo
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Many people who live in Georgia get tired of the "southern pride" and dixie outfitter shirts. They can think what they want, but the rebel flag shouldn't represent a state.
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#15537 - 04/23/04 08:04 PM
Re: confederate flag
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FaBMX
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I have one in my room and two stapled to my wall.
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#15538 - 04/23/04 08:16 PM
Re: confederate flag
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sdp
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You Redneck... j/k 
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#15540 - 04/23/04 11:39 PM
Re: confederate flag
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cenfath
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I personally have no problem with the Confederate flag. It's a part of their lifestyle and their roots. What you need to understand is they're LETTING hate groups use the confederate flag. Hate groups just use it because they can because the Confederate flag marks a very dark time in American history and people are going to use it because they have the misconception that the Southern states used it JUST to make sure people knew it was because they were in favor of slavery. That wasn't it at all. There were some Southerners who did believe in slavery, however, they didn't feel as though they were in any position to change because "that's the way it was done" and that's how they saw it. The Conferdate flag is a part of the Mississips state flag. If you don't believe it there's a link at the bottom of this post to it. Should it be forbodden to use it because some hate groups use it for stupid reasons?
I find particular offense to your post using the term "rednecks."
Websters dictionary defines a redneck as:
1. Used as a disparaging term for a member of the white rural laboring class, especially in the southern United States.
2. A white person regarded as having a provincial, conservative, often bigoted attitude.
I fit into definition one being as I DID come from a poor rural community and my job is now as a truck driver. So that would qualify me as a redneck. And I am by no means a bigot, a racist, or some illiterate uneducated member of the KKK who thinks the white race is superior. I personally think that the KKK was created to mask some asshole's deep seated fears that he may be a homosexual or might even have black ancestry. Me personally, I would love the shit out of being related to someone like Harriet Tubman or James Meredith the first African American to attend a Mississippi public school.
I don't want to sound like I'm chewing you out or putting you down but when you use the term redneck in a derrogatory sense I take offense to it because according to Webster, that's what I am. Not better or worse...I'm just different. You hate that us "rednecks" are worried that our heritage is being taken away. But you know what I hate? I hate that people that I'm friends with who are African Americans still hang slavery over my head like I had something to do with it. They aren't slaves and I don't believe in slavery. But I do believe that I should NOT be held accountable for the action of my may or may not be ancestors because I don't know if my ancestors owned slaves.
I'm a person. I'm not better than anyone. I may accel at some things but it doesn't make me a better person. Just because I'm what Webster defines as a "redneck" doesn't mean I'm a bad person and doesn't mean that I'm some illiterate, hate group carrying the Confederate flag for all the wrong reasons. I don't even own a Confederate flag. My dad however does and has the flag on some his shirts and stuff though,along with the rest of my family, and I speak mainly for people like the ones in my family who aren't like what you're thinking what "rednecks" really are.
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#15542 - 04/24/04 11:54 AM
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Anonymous
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#15543 - 04/24/04 02:30 PM
Re: confederate flag
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FaBMX
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Your wrong on this... and from what I have been reading lately, Your pretty racist... Yeah thats right.. a black person can be racist to... So your racist.
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#15544 - 04/24/04 04:35 PM
Re: confederate flag
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seven_wants_ten
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I agree
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#15545 - 04/24/04 05:21 PM
Re: confederate flag
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cenfath
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Registered: 01/04/02
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First of all you're really starting to aggravate me as I've already explained some of the answer to your questions.
Second, I've already explained that you can't tell someone that they arent allowed to buy a Confederate flag or that they can't use it. Sons of the Confederacy I'm not a member of so I can't tell you why they haven't made a public announcement.
Third, if you hate the south so much...MOVE. No one is making you stay.
AND ANOTHER THING: Why the hell are you so bent outta shape over something that you had nothing to do with you and that I had nothing to do with?? Slavery is in the past. Learn about and leave it the fuck there where it belongs. I am not racist but your attitude stinks. Your ANCESTORS were in slavery, not you directly. My ANCESTORS probably owned slaves...I DO NOT. So why the hell do you have a problem with me? Because I'm a white, southern conservative. And if you'd care to read history a little better YOUR ancestors were sold into slavery by their own people AND every fucking ehtnicity I've ever known has been in slavery at some point in time. Even the white race. So the way I look at is is boo fucking hoo..learn from the mistakes you made and get the fuck over it. I know that sounds harsh but you're holding something against me that I had nothing to do with. GET OVER IT! Quit whining about what someone didn't do to you.
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#15546 - 04/24/04 05:26 PM
Re: confederate flag
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ArieNmyralythe
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Registered: 04/20/04
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You certainly have the right to be offended when you see a confederate flag; but they also certainly have a right to display it. It may be one of the things that make this country great, but remember that Freedom of Speech has a dark side just like anything else, and you can't pick and choose how it goes. Either we all have the freedom to express ourselves or we don't, it's that simple. I'll agree there is a fine line between expressing yourself and blatant discrimination and racial intimidation; but as long as we have the First Amendment, there are always going to be bigotted people like that.
Of course, speaking of resentment, I resent the fact that you claim all southerners are racist and glorify the old confederacy. I'm white, and I was born and raised in Virginia, but that doesn't mean that I believe that slavery or Jim Crow Laws or whatever were a good things. I mean, most of my family wasn't even in this country before the 1900's and those that were never owned slaves, nor did they fight on the side of the confederacy. Besides, you don't have to be the stereotypical white southerner landowner to be a racist, and I don't think I have to justify myself when I say that. I don't mean to glamorize the old South, but I refuse to agree with your implication that all white southerners are responsible racism in this country.
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#15547 - 04/24/04 08:37 PM
Re: confederate flag
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whiteboy_com
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Registered: 10/23/01
Posts: 1374
Loc: Mississippi
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No1,
you're my online friend and all, but I have to thoroughly disagree with you on all counts.
I am a Southern white man, and, according to most(of course, NOT racist) black advancement groups, by default responsible for any and all acts of violence or oppression enacted by whites, against blacks.
Never mind that I myself have never personally done anything against a black person that could be construed as racist, and in fact I go to great extremes on a daily basis to make the health of local black people better. Nevertheless, I read the local shitrag-er-newspaper(the Clarion-Ledger) and find articles EVERY DAY about how racist we whites all are and how we are holding down the entire black race. I resent that, and also tend to resent those who print it.
On to the Confederate flag issue that has been brought up, I realize that people, many of whom it seems to be their job to be so, are offended by its mere existence on the face of the earth and feel it is a horrid symbol on par with the Nazi swastika and the hammer and sickle.
I know some white power hate groups do use it in their demonstrations. They also fly the American flag. In my opinion, there are very few people who join these groups who have an IQ much over room temperature, and most can't even effectively verbalize why they think they are better than anyone.
The Confederate flag was a battle flag which was used by the soldiers of some of the Confederate Army, the most commonly used flags being local regiment flags or some other variant thereof. It became a symbol of the lost cause of the South, which was NOT a cause of simple-minded whites wanting to forever subjugate another race, but more of a war against a more or less foreign(to them) power which wanted to take away their right to make a decent living by totally stripping their profits and their work force.
What people nowadays NEVER take into account when they criticize those who came before them is that they, like us, are people of their time. We live in the 21st century. We live with conveniences and by rules which did not exist in the 19th century. To men of that time, slavery and farming were established institutions which had to continue in order for the fabric of economy and society to hold together. The same thing is true now of computers. Let someone suddenly rip computers or electronics out of your life and imagine how it would be. You'd be willing to fight for it, wouldn't you?
In the future, the day may come when it is considered low and despicable to make computers or machines be our "slaves". One day, they may be our equals. People of the Civil war era felt the same way about their slaves.
Finally, I think that those who stir so much stink about the flag being so offensive should turn their eyes toward black on black crime, illegitimacy, poor health, and other problems.
In the meantime, I'll fly my flag.
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#15548 - 04/24/04 08:45 PM
Re: confederate flag
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whiteboy_com
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Registered: 10/23/01
Posts: 1374
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I also find the word "redneck" to be a word similar to the big, bad old "N word"(and by that I mean "nigger"). It means little when you call yourself one, or if someone of your race calls you one, but if a black (or Northerner, etc.) calls you one, it tends to be ..less than flattering. Calling someone a racial slur while accusing others of racism is most definitely hypocritical.
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#15549 - 04/25/04 12:38 PM
Re: confederate flag
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Steppenwolf
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No1sexpot has not made any comments that I find racist. In fact, I think that the comments made against her are utterly indefensible.
I think it's perfectly acceptable and understandable for someone to be offended by a flag that was created to protect a "way of life" that was deeply entangled with slavery and bigotry. I realize that many southerners see the confederate flag as representative of something beyond racism. I can't agree. The confederate flag was born of racism, and we shouldn't glorify a flag that was created to defend slavery.
Southern pride does exist beyond racism, and I do believe that many people who cherish the confederate flag are not racist in any way. However, the South includes millions of blacks, and how can we whites ever expect the black south to cherish or accept a symbol that is deeply and historically tied to an institution that treated blacks like animals and property. It's insulting and divisive. I'm sorry, it's time to come up with a new symbol that includes blacks- unless people don’t want blacks to be part of the "South" that everyone here seems to be defending.
Edited by Steppenwolf (04/25/04 12:39 PM)
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#15550 - 04/25/04 12:48 PM
Re: confederate flag
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Steppenwolf
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Yes, redneck is not an acceptable term, but I can't agree that it's equal to "nigger." "Redneck" was never a term used to inspire fear. The term "nigger" was used to evoke fear in a climate that tolerated lynching. I know that you personally are not guilty of such, but my point stands... Nor can I believe that Sexpot is a racist-- to me, she just sounds frustrated...
Edited by Steppenwolf (04/25/04 12:49 PM)
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#15551 - 04/25/04 03:59 PM
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Edited by no1sexpotinusa (04/25/04 04:13 PM)
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#15552 - 04/25/04 06:18 PM
Re: confederate flag
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ArieNmyralythe
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I didn't mean to insinuate that you were racist, I was just remarking that it's a bit misguided to think that all white southerners are all about confederate pride and whatnot. That would be like me saying that all Russians are Communists or all Germans are Nazis; none of these are the truth.
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#15553 - 04/25/04 08:29 PM
Re: confederate flag
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websexinfo
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Registered: 11/15/03
Posts: 6655
Loc: Hometown, GA
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lol. It's funny how words like redneck, nigger or nigga, honky, flip, cracker, jap, chink, dirty mexican, and anything really related to race is all so very very offensive. I personally think people in general try to be too politically correct.
I HIGHLY RECOMMEND watching one of Carlos Mencia's comedy stand ups.
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#15554 - 04/25/04 09:47 PM
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Anonymous
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#15555 - 04/25/04 09:58 PM
Re: confederate flag
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websexinfo
longstanding member
Registered: 11/15/03
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Loc: Hometown, GA
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If you watch one of Carlos Mencia's stand ups, you'll understand what I'm talking about. The truth is often the funniest things you'll hear and in a way he talks about things in a non-comedic way. And to get back on topic, he also talks about the confederate flag.
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#15556 - 04/25/04 10:09 PM
Re: confederate flag
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Worried
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Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 317
Loc: Midland/Lubbock, TX
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I was born and raised in the South, although, West Texas has very few ties to the actual confederacy. My Great-Great-Great Grandfather was a Corporal in the CSA army. Let me tell you, the Civil War was not based on racism and slavery...it was based on the rights of individual states to determine what was best for their state at the time.
Yes, slavery was wrong, but to associate the Confederate flag with racism is like associating the American flag witht the Japanese internment of WW II. It was wrong, but fears, mostly perpetuated by the Northern Industrialists, went unchecked. Pride was a huge factor as the South prided themselves on what they did with the little they had.
No. 1,
Do you get offended when a white person calls you a "nigger"? If so, remember that the next time you fling around "redneck". In my opinion it's hypocrtitical to preach one thing and prcatice another.
I attended Robert E. Lee High School in Midland, TX (West TX). One of the school symbols was the Confederate flag and was disbanded in 1991 (due to a complaint lodged by a Mexican student). Are you saying that the 3,000 students a year that passed through those doors from 1962 up until 1991 are racist? They're not!!!
Yes, slavery was an atrocity, but look at 90% of history books, and you'll find the slavery issue (Bloody Kansas in particular) was the final push to chaos. Honor was a HUGE deal. Look at the example of Senator Sumner from Massachusetts in May of 1856. He delivered a series of speeches dishonoring the name (NO MENTION of SLAVERY AS AN INSTITUTION) of South Carolina Representative Andrew Butler and making fun of his speech impediment. Butler was an 80 year man with no means of defending himself. Butler's nephew, Preston Brooks, to restore honor to his Uncle's name proceeded to cane Sumner with a gutta percha, gold-tipped cane.
The deep South is all about personal honor. Therefore lodge your complaint with your local founding father for making slaves property in the 3/5 Compromise and not writing no slavery in the Constitution.
By the way, the Confederate flag was merely the Naval Jack early in the war and has BEEN ADOPTED by the KKK as a SYMBOL of their beliefs. I'm sure Robert E. Lee would look down on it, but learn the history of something before assuming it's "value". Where was the confederate flag seen before the Civil War??? Britain. Who did the South wish to ally with in the war??? Britain, for the cotton sales.
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#15557 - 04/25/04 10:31 PM
Re: confederate flag
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whiteboy_com
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Registered: 10/23/01
Posts: 1374
Loc: Mississippi
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Everyone here makes good points, I'm glad some agree with me and hell, I'm glad some disagree with me. Free country.
For what it's worth, Mississippi put our state flag(with the Stars and Bars) up for a vote.
It won 65% to 35%.
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#15558 - 04/25/04 10:33 PM
Re: confederate flag
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Worried
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Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 317
Loc: Midland/Lubbock, TX
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Exactly. The whole issue should be Free Speech, the state wants it, they can have. I love popular sovereignty!!!
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#15559 - 04/25/04 10:41 PM
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Anonymous
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#15560 - 04/25/04 10:46 PM
Re: confederate flag
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ArieNmyralythe
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Keep in mind that hate groups also use other flags, including our modern American Flag. How come we don't hear outcry about that?
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#15561 - 04/25/04 11:03 PM
Re: confederate flag
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Steppenwolf
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In reply to:
Let me tell you, the Civil War was not based on racism and slavery...it was based on the rights of individual states to determine what was best for their state at the time.
Honestly, I've heard so much of this in my lifetime that I don't feel like being nice or PC about it. This is bullshit, and your teachers should be ashamed of themselves for brainwashing you. As a white Virginian from the Shenandoah Valley (where the Confederate flag may be more popular than the American flag), I was fed this crap for eighteen years. I don't care to cling to this myth.
Let's look at "state rights" for a second. My teachers (like you) claimed that the Civil War wasn't about slavery, but "state rights" and “states’ self determination.” The argument is that the South didn't secede because they feared that Lincoln would attempt to abolish slavery, but because they feared that the Federal Government would infringe upon their sovereignty and rights to “self determination.” The argument continues by claiming that the "Northern Aggressors" (industrialists, or whatever other cute nickname) declared war for some malicious reasons that had nothing to do with either preserving the union or ending slavery. But what does this whole "self determination" phrase mean? What did we want to determine? In which ways did the South fear that the Federal government would infringe upon their rights? The only legislation that northerners intended to pass that would infringe upon Southern “self determination” was legislation regarding slavery. The only “right” that would have been taken away from the South prior to secession was the right to have slaves and racist laws. Thus, the whole “self determination” bit is just a round about way of saying that we wanted the “right” to choose to have slaves and to subjugate blacks! What the hell sort of right is that?
Forgive me for being so venomous, but I DEEPLY resent the teachers that tried to fool me into accepting that secession was about "self determination" without ever bothering to ask the question: Self determination about what? What did the South want to determine?
It took three Constitutional Amendments and several broad reaching statutes to prevent "self-determination." I, for one, am glad that we weren't allowed to determine the fate of slavery for ourselves.
Pull the wool off your eyes, my friend. Southerners have plenty to be proud of, but the Confederacy is not on of those things. We should find a symbol that doesn’t make others feel alienated.
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#15562 - 04/25/04 11:10 PM
Re: confederate flag
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Worried
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Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 317
Loc: Midland/Lubbock, TX
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Becuase there's a little thing called freedom of speech. We can't stop them or anyone else from doing what they want within the confines of the law.
People can burn the American flag. Are they anti-American??? Nope, just upset because their values have been challenged. Like I said, ask a question before making a generalization. My view of the Confederate flag (being a school symbol) may be different from somebody in Mississippi, Alabama, or Georgia. You say you're not lumping, but because a minority of a "small protion of the American public" use it as a hate symbol, it should be banned? That's the communist way of thinking. If it's against what the majority feels it should be outlawed. Like it or not, the Constitution was written to protect their rights to use the Confederate flag as a hate symbol. The Const. protects the minority view as long as it falls within the confines of the law, and it is within the confines. You're entitled to an opinion, why can't they be??? Or is it wrong because they use the flag???
I am not defending them, but I get tired of people calling foul on others, when those exact same rights are protected by them. I guarantee you that people wouldn't like it if someone flew an Iraqi flag as protest of the war, but they can.
The Confederacy was a legitimate government with a legitimate flag (which the true one actually more resembled the Texas flag), so there's the answer to the heritage arguement. Take a poll of most Southerners and ask if the flag is hate or heritage. Most actually believe it is heritage, so why take away something from them because YOU don't like it.
IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, DON'T LOOK AT IT!!!!
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#15563 - 04/25/04 11:18 PM
Re: confederate flag
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Steppenwolf
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Who says "ban" the Confederate flag? This has nothing to do with the First Amendment. The First Amendment concerns State action (and no, it has nothing to do with State Rights). No one on this forum is asking the Federal government to go door to door collecting flags. At least that's not what I'm asking, and though I cannot speak for No1Sexpot, I don't think that's what she's asking either.
I'm asking, as a citizen, that people abandon the Confederate flag and chose a symbol that isn't so historically pregnant with racism. This has nothing to do with "freedom of speech."
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#15564 - 04/25/04 11:19 PM
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Anonymous
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#15565 - 04/25/04 11:26 PM
Re: confederate flag
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Worried
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Registered: 02/19/04
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Disclaimer: This is not in defense of slavery, rather an explanation of how the slavery issue became as explosive as it did.
You seem to think, or least what I see, that I am defending the institution of slavery itself. No I'm not. But it all goes back to a right to property set back in 1776. This was the claim of the forefathers, Jefferson in particular. The 3/5 Compromise further pushed the issue back dozens of generations.
It's much like the idea if you put off a paper till later, you'll have to deal with it AND other work, but you put that off, and so on until you fail a semester of school. You have to deal with it NOW rather than later, and that's where we are today.
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#15566 - 04/25/04 11:32 PM
Re: confederate flag
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Worried
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Registered: 02/19/04
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Yeah and you think everyone with a Confederate flag is racist.
How does it not deal with freedom of speech? If a man wants to join the KKK and takes the flag as a symbol of hate, is that not Free Speech, protected by the Const.?
But I love how No1 is saying I'm brainwashed, of course, I'm racist. I've dealt with shit like this all my life where I'm from. It's an issue of how someone views it. My dad does not see it as a symbol of racism, rather a symbol of the school he graduated from. Apparently, No1 sees it as racist. Again, it's sectional views. West Texas is not considered South, it's considered Southwestern in culture, more likely to associate with New Mexico and Arizona, rather than Miss., Alabama, and Louisiana.
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#15567 - 04/25/04 11:34 PM
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Anonymous
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#15568 - 04/25/04 11:37 PM
Re: confederate flag
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Worried
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Registered: 02/19/04
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Loc: Midland/Lubbock, TX
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In reply to:
If they are so worried about their heritage, why do they allow hate groups to use it when the march?
This right here is my point about Freedom of Speech. The right to assemble (march).
So my expressing of my views ruins "YOUR" thread? Last I knew, the internet was public domain. BTW, according to US law, once a statement leaves your mouth (or fingers in this case) and enters a public forum, it becomes property of the public for examination and criticism.
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#15569 - 04/25/04 11:40 PM
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#15570 - 04/25/04 11:45 PM
Re: confederate flag
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Worried
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OK, so you understand the law. Now explain how I'm ruining "YOUR" thread?
Edited by Worried (04/25/04 11:45 PM)
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#15571 - 04/25/04 11:46 PM
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#15572 - 04/25/04 11:48 PM
Re: confederate flag
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Worried
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Registered: 02/19/04
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Come on tell me, how??
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#15573 - 04/25/04 11:49 PM
Re: confederate flag
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websexinfo
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Registered: 11/15/03
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Loc: Hometown, GA
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Hey Steppenwolf,
You sound like my American History teacher! He also said that a lot of other teachers try to say the civil war wasn't about slavery. My teacher pointed out that every aspect of the war was linked back to slavery, from morality to economics. Seeing this connection, I believe the civil war was definitely fought in regards to slavery.
Going back toward topic:
What do I feel about the Confederate flag? I tire of it's use in Georgia by certain companies like dixie outfitters and I certainly think that it should not be used to represent a state. But I do feel that if certain hate groups want to use it as a symbol of their cause, then so be it. America is a great country because of the many freedoms you have, including the right to demonstrate.
As for the burning of the American flag, I say it's okay as long as they have a burn permit. Otherwsie, book em' boys!
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#15574 - 04/25/04 11:56 PM
Re: confederate flag
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Worried
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Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 317
Loc: Midland/Lubbock, TX
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In reply to:
But I do feel that if certain hate groups want to use it as a symbol of their cause, then so be it. America is a great country because of the many freedoms you have, including the right to demonstrate.
This has always been my view on anything. I may not like, but I can voice my opinion about it. But apparently, my views ruin the internet. What one person thinks in Georgia, however is completely different from what a West Texas boy thinks.
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#15575 - 04/25/04 11:56 PM
Re: confederate flag
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Steppenwolf
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I don't think that you're defending slavery  I think that you're defending an argument about "state rights," that, whether you know it or not, boiled down to the "right" to have slaves during secession.
Yes, the Constitution and the founding fathers delayed the issue of slavery, but the 3/5 compromise (Article I, section 3) isn't the right place to look- that was a population/representation compromise. Article I, section 9, clause 1, and Article V are the places where slavery is most clearly prolonged (but only until 1808, long before the Civil War). So no, it's not about the Constitution. The right to property is also as much of a ghost as "state rights;" the only property in question at this point were human beings.
Secession was still about slavery and racism.
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#15576 - 04/26/04 12:01 AM
Re: confederate flag
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websexinfo
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Registered: 11/15/03
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Hold on, I live in Georgia. 
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#15577 - 04/26/04 12:04 AM
Re: confederate flag
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Worried
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Registered: 02/19/04
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Ahhh, are you a strict constructionist????
My point was simply to state how I felt and someone flew off the handle. Anyway, you are correct about the Compromise being population, however, it is obvious that any cession to the pro-slavery activists at the time (Jefferson included) would be considered delaying the inevitable.
OK, maybe this one will sing a little bit better. The Missouri Compromise of 1820 did definately delay the inevitable. As did the Kansas-Nebraska Act around 1852-1855. This led to the terrible blood shed and essential abuse of democracy by both pro and anti slavery forces leading to "Bloody Kansas" as well as the Raid on Lawrence. Stephen Douglass was a political moron. The thing was we faced this with Texas and Cali. admittance as well. The whole 36'30" thing was stupid as hell, of course hindsight is 20/20.
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#15578 - 04/26/04 12:07 AM
Re: confederate flag
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Worried
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Registered: 02/19/04
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In reply to:
Hold on, I live in Georgia.
I know. I just meant that your views differ from mine due to the geographic locale and different interests in different political arenas. This topic is a prime example. The C.F. is/was (I can't remember which) part of your state flag, whereas, in Midland, TX it's an issue of it being a school symbol.
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#15579 - 04/26/04 12:10 AM
Re: confederate flag
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websexinfo
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Oh, I gotcha.
And the Georgia state flag has been changed. So the correct word would have been "was".
Do you feel that the confederate flag is an appropriate symbol for a school?
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#15580 - 04/26/04 12:15 AM
Re: confederate flag
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Worried
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Registered: 02/19/04
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We had this issue starting in '91 extending to current. Frankly, I don't care anymore, I'm not there. It's my belief, with the exception of vulgarity, anything such as this should be taken with a grain of salt (so should a margarita     ). The kids went to Robert E. Lee HS, the Rebels, it was just something that fit perfectly into the schools namesake, no harm no foul, even the black students flew them. So, while in certain geographic locales (around certain posters and in the N) it would not be, in West Texas it was just part of the school. They flew from houses on Fridays (football nights) and Saturdays after wins and that was it.
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#15581 - 04/26/04 12:38 AM
Re: confederate flag
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websexinfo
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Registered: 11/15/03
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In that certain situation, I would understand that the flag was being used in a sense of identification toward that particular school and mascot or name. Of course, everyone must be considered and people have the right to be offended even if the respresentation of the flag intended was not taken in the way it was supposed to be.
In short, the confederate flag was appropriate considering the county, inappropriate considering the country.
I think I understand completely.
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#15582 - 04/26/04 01:28 AM
Re: confederate flag
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cenfath
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Registered: 01/04/02
Posts: 1789
Loc: Gaithersburg, MD
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In reply to:
I just find it hypocritical that they allow it.
Is it not also hypocritical to say that you don't like the terms nigger, nigga, chink, jap, spic, towel head etc. being used and then turn around and call others a "red neck". By the way, what is your definition of "red neck" because I've already explained Websters and according to Mr. Webster, I AM a redneck. So let me see if I got this right you're not calling all us Southerner's rednecks. You're just using a racial slur to describe some of "us southerners". So it's safe for me to assume that you can get pissed off if someone from a different race says the word nigger to you (as in , "was up my nigga?") but you can call me a redneck and I should just sit here and be nice? That sounds hypocritical to me.
And as I've said before, you can't tell someone they can't use the Confederate flag. It's not that we're allowing them to use it. It's that we don't have any say in the matter. We don't own the damn flag so we're in no position to say, "hey, if you're a hate group, you can't fly our flag." And the biggest reason being because how the hell are you supposed to know if someone's going to use it in a hate group march? It just doesn't work like that. In a perfect world everyone would be completely equal and we wouldn't have to worry about hate groups but you know something? This isn't a perfect world and we have freedom of speech. So if you want to cut out freedom of speech from the Bill of Rights then maybe we can all live with our lips zipped up but then not much would be accomplished. Arie has a point too. People use other flags to use in hate group marches. Why isn't everyone bitching about that? I've already told you my dad has a Confederate flag..he has shirts, etc. with the Confederate flag and Whiteboy has said he's gonna keep flyin' his flag and I know my dad doesn't believe in slavery and I'm pretty damn sure whiteboy doesn't believe in slavery either.
Slavery was an underlying cause of the Civil War. It was about states rights. They wanted to be able to do what they thought was best for them to keep making a profit. They didn't see slavery as bad. As a matter of fact slave owners must have trusted their slaves somewhat come to think of it because those same slave owners entrusted their children to them. Those children grew up with that slave as their nanny. To explain a different way of looking at how it was about states rights look at it this way: Whiteboy said it best when he said that NOW, in the 21st century computers are OUR slaves. We depend on them for hours on end with no breaks in between. We get pissed off when they don't work right. Some of you probably even smack the side of the monitor when it's pissing you off. Some of you have probably snapped your keyboards in two over your knee because it just pisses you off that it's not doing the job the way you want it to. Sound a little familiar? Isn't that how some slaves owners treated their slaves? We don't see that buying and owning computers is wrong. We see them as property. Isn't that how you see your computer? That's how slave owners saw their slaves. But it's different you say because computers are machines made to serve people and African Americans are human beings. But try this on for size: We believe machines were made to serve people. Slave owners believed the same thing of their slaves. Does it make it right? No. But understand that where slaves owners were with owning their slaves is kind of where we're at with owning computers. One day people could want to abolish owning computers. What then? You'd certainly fight for the right to own that computer wouldn't you? Of course, because you feel that it's your RIGHT to own it because it makes your life easier for all sorts of things: making a profit being a big one. Just as owning slaves helped make a profit for the owner. Southerner's back then looked at it this way: They're going to tell me I can't own slaves. What are they going to tell me I can't do next?
I don't condone slavery in the least. But I AM just trying to give you a different way to look at things. You technically own a slave sitting at your desk right now. It's just something to think about.
And whoever said the Confederate flag is pregnant with slavery. You got it all wrong honey. The flag was never meant to represent slavery and it doesn't represent it at all. It represents the southern states (The Confederacy) that seceded from the Union because they thought there rights were being taken away and they didn't like it. Just because some ding-dong from the KKK who's confused about his sexuality decided he was going to use it for that reason doesn't mean the flag is at fault. You can't teach a piece of cloth right from wrong. It doesn't fly itself. But instead of trying to tell me to fly a different flag and that I should have more tolerance how about showing a bit more tolerance yourself. I'm fully aware that everyone has a right to their opinion and even though I may not agree with it I am willing to acknowledge that their opinion exists.
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#15583 - 04/26/04 01:38 AM
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