0 registered
and 42 anonymous users online.
|
|
|
#346138 - 07/24/09 03:08 PM
Re: The world is changing...
[Re: unsupervised]
|
thor
longstanding member
Registered: 06/27/06
Posts: 2702
Loc: here...not there
|
Offline
|
|
thanks. I've only read the first article so far but it kind of helps explains how the seeds of thor's hatred are to be found in his bible.
I myself do not hate the Muslims...but you cannot understand that because you yourself are so filled with hatred. If you want the real meat, skip down to the third link provided. You'll see there what Islam is really all about.
With regard to the first link, it should be noted that all instructions God gave the people of Israel concerning killing were specific one-time events...and applied only to the children of Israel. There is no standing requirement for killing of non-believers in the Bible as there is in the Koran. There is no comparison between the two.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#346142 - 07/24/09 04:33 PM
Re: The world is changing...
[Re: thor]
|
unsupervised
Uber Sexy Canadian Member
Registered: 11/28/04
Posts: 9314
Loc: Reality
|
|
Offline
|
|
I know you are but what am I?
you seriously need some new material dude
_________________________
and there was light
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#346154 - 07/24/09 06:46 PM
Re: The world is changing...
[Re: thor]
|
bobalicious
*property of AngelWitch*
Registered: 12/25/04
Posts: 8738
Loc: Ireland
|
|
Offline
|
|
There is no standing requirement for killing of non-believers in the Bible as there is in the Koran. There is no comparison between the two.
How about Luke 22:35-38 when Jesus tells the disciples to sell their possessions and buy swords? I know that he never says why they need the swords but it couldn't logically be for self-defence. They came back with just 2 swords and he said that it was enough. Jesus thought 2 swords was enough to defend 11 men? Its not rational. So if the swords weren't for defence, what were they for?
_________________________
The Word of God - Surprisingly indistinguishable from one's own personal opinion.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#346167 - 07/24/09 10:12 PM
Re: The world is changing...
[Re: bobalicious]
|
Ineligible
Administrator
Registered: 08/09/01
Posts: 15528
|
|
Offline
|
|
Two swords among 12 men (they were still 12 at that point) would not be much for offence, either.
This passage tends to be badly neglected in churches, but I think it is important. Jesus had sent out his disciples to preach, and specifically told them not to take any of the normal prudent precautions, such as carrying some money or spare food or a spare pair of sandals (Luke 9:3 and 10:4). It was important that the power of God to provide all was seen. But now, at the Last Supper, Jesus is telling his disciples that they are going back, including himself, into the ordinary fallen world that everyone else lives in, the world where you need to show prudence, a world of want and violence.
As usual, the disciples don't see the deeper principle, and only address the literal meaning. Jesus knows they will understand later - perhaps the "it is enough" meant "I have said enough". But it may also refer to what was to come: Luke 22:49-51 (Matt 26:51-52, Mark 14:47, John 18:10-11), where we note (a) that one sword was used, and (b) Jesus criticised its use.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#346168 - 07/24/09 10:43 PM
Re: The world is changing...
[Re: Ineligible]
|
bobalicious
*property of AngelWitch*
Registered: 12/25/04
Posts: 8738
Loc: Ireland
|
|
Offline
|
|
Yeah, I still don't get it. Even using a sword as a form of defence, doesn't that go against the whole 'turn the other cheek' stuff?
_________________________
The Word of God - Surprisingly indistinguishable from one's own personal opinion.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#355367 - 07/19/10 01:42 PM
Re: The world is changing...
[Re: thor]
|
thor
longstanding member
Registered: 06/27/06
Posts: 2702
Loc: here...not there
|
|
Offline
|
|
Just to add insult to injury...
No mosque at Ground Zero
...and they're planning to open in on Sept. 11th, the ten-year anniversary. Condell is right on the money with this one.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#355368 - 07/19/10 01:52 PM
Re: The world is changing...
[Re: thor]
|
bobalicious
*property of AngelWitch*
Registered: 12/25/04
Posts: 8738
Loc: Ireland
|
|
Offline
|
|
I'm quite a big fan of Condell but he has received quite a bit of criticism over this video.
He says that they're building a Mosque just a few yards from Ground Zero They're actually building two blocks away and, most importantly, they're not building a Mosque. Its a Muslim funded Community Centre.
I don't fully agree with it and would rather it wasn't built there, but I can't stand how the facts keep getting twisted to cause even more outrage.
_________________________
The Word of God - Surprisingly indistinguishable from one's own personal opinion.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#355370 - 07/19/10 02:19 PM
Re: The world is changing...
[Re: thor]
|
thor
longstanding member
Registered: 06/27/06
Posts: 2702
Loc: here...not there
|
|
Offline
|
|
I think the building is actually a community center, but there will also be a temple (mosque) in it. And the Sept. 11th opening of it (assuming it happens on schedule) makes the intent clear.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#355371 - 07/19/10 02:52 PM
Re: The world is changing...
[Re: thor]
|
unsupervised
Uber Sexy Canadian Member
Registered: 11/28/04
Posts: 9314
Loc: Reality
|
|
Offline
|
|
which is...
_________________________
and there was light
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#355372 - 07/19/10 03:29 PM
Re: The world is changing...
[Re: thor]
|
bobalicious
*property of AngelWitch*
Registered: 12/25/04
Posts: 8738
Loc: Ireland
|
|
Offline
|
|
I think the building is actually a community center, but there will also be a temple (mosque) in it.
Yeah, you're right there, it will have a prayer room in it. I'm just not sure if a prayer room deserves such outrage.
And the Sept. 11th opening of it (assuming it happens on schedule) makes the intent clear.
I hadn't actually heard before this that it was being opened on Sept. 11th. This is either really poor judgement by them or a conscious effort to try contrast the attacks. Sort of saying "Years ago Muslims tried to destroy this community, now we're trying to help it."
I will admit of course that its not in my nature to suppose malicious intent without good reason, and I personally don't see anything to suggest it here.
_________________________
The Word of God - Surprisingly indistinguishable from one's own personal opinion.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#355374 - 07/19/10 04:00 PM
Re: The world is changing...
[Re: bobalicious]
|
thor
longstanding member
Registered: 06/27/06
Posts: 2702
Loc: here...not there
|
|
Offline
|
|
I will admit of course that its not in my nature to suppose malicious intent without good reason, and I personally don't see anything to suggest it here.
I don't think "malicious" would be the right word. By contrast, suppose the United States opened a new embassy at ground zero in Hiroshima, and opened it on the anniversary of the day the bomb dropped there.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#355375 - 07/19/10 04:01 PM
Re: The world is changing...
[Re: unsupervised]
|
thor
longstanding member
Registered: 06/27/06
Posts: 2702
Loc: here...not there
|
|
Offline
|
|
Research the word "dhimmitude". Wiki it, for a start.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#355377 - 07/19/10 04:19 PM
Re: The world is changing...
[Re: thor]
|
unsupervised
Uber Sexy Canadian Member
Registered: 11/28/04
Posts: 9314
Loc: Reality
|
|
Offline
|
|
hilarious!
You know, if you read the history of the dhimmis it tends to paint a much rosier picture of Muslim tolerance toward non Muslims than generally found in the history of Christian tolerance toward non Christians. It's a funny old world eh?
_________________________
and there was light
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#355378 - 07/19/10 04:21 PM
Re: The world is changing...
[Re: unsupervised]
|
thor
longstanding member
Registered: 06/27/06
Posts: 2702
Loc: here...not there
|
|
Offline
|
|
As I said, times are changing.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#355380 - 07/19/10 04:31 PM
Re: The world is changing...
[Re: thor]
|
unsupervised
Uber Sexy Canadian Member
Registered: 11/28/04
Posts: 9314
Loc: Reality
|
|
Offline
|
|
and your tolerance exemplifies the new world order?
_________________________
and there was light
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#355384 - 07/19/10 04:40 PM
Re: The world is changing...
[Re: thor]
|
bobalicious
*property of AngelWitch*
Registered: 12/25/04
Posts: 8738
Loc: Ireland
|
|
Offline
|
|
I will admit of course that its not in my nature to suppose malicious intent without good reason, and I personally don't see anything to suggest it here. I don't think "malicious" would be the right word. By contrast, suppose the United States opened a new embassy at ground zero in Hiroshima, and opened it on the anniversary of the day the bomb dropped there.
Exactly. To one side its an act of change and good will while to the other its perceived as aggression and/or dishonour.
_________________________
The Word of God - Surprisingly indistinguishable from one's own personal opinion.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#355389 - 07/19/10 04:46 PM
Re: The world is changing...
[Re: bobalicious]
|
thor
longstanding member
Registered: 06/27/06
Posts: 2702
Loc: here...not there
|
|
Offline
|
|
I will admit of course that its not in my nature to suppose malicious intent without good reason, and I personally don't see anything to suggest it here. I don't think "malicious" would be the right word. By contrast, suppose the United States opened a new embassy at ground zero in Hiroshima, and opened it on the anniversary of the day the bomb dropped there. Exactly. To one side its an act of change and good will while to the other its perceived as aggression and/or dishonour.
But when on foreign soil, how the idea is perceived is what is important. When how the idea is perceived is not the main consideration, the intent can be nothing other than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#355392 - 07/19/10 04:51 PM
Re: The world is changing...
[Re: thor]
|
OldFolks
Tall and sexy member
Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 4769
Loc: Just Beyond the Reach of Light
|
|
Offline
|
|
"But when on foreign soil"
Is this center being built by illegal aliens or some foreign government?
_________________________
There is no punishment. There is no reward. There are only consequences.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#355396 - 07/19/10 05:04 PM
Re: The world is changing...
[Re: OldFolks]
|
thor
longstanding member
Registered: 06/27/06
Posts: 2702
Loc: here...not there
|
|
Offline
|
|
"But when on foreign soil"
Is this center being built by illegal aliens or some foreign government?
A foreign entity, in that it stems from a certain part of the world that is intent on "converting" the rest of the world by obviously (9/11) hostile means...which includes the US, Great Britain and France...just to name a few places. I wonder if Great Britain ever considered letting Hitler start up a Nazi party headquarters in London during WWII. Hey, it's just a political party...they can be peaceful, right?
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#355397 - 07/19/10 05:21 PM
Re: The world is changing...
[Re: thor]
|
unsupervised
Uber Sexy Canadian Member
Registered: 11/28/04
Posts: 9314
Loc: Reality
|
|
Offline
|
|
ah, so Islam is a malicious political movement, bent on indoctrination. While Christianity is a beautiful system of belief that would not dirty it's hands with either politics nor evangelism.
_________________________
and there was light
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#355398 - 07/19/10 05:30 PM
Re: The world is changing...
[Re: unsupervised]
|
thor
longstanding member
Registered: 06/27/06
Posts: 2702
Loc: here...not there
|
|
Offline
|
|
ah, so Islam is a malicious political movement, bent on indoctrination. While Christianity is a beautiful system of belief that would not dirty it's hands with either politics nor evangelism.
Since you seem determined to change the subject of the thread, why don't you list someplace in the world where Christians are (not were) attempted to convert others by threat, through use of suicide bombers (including children) and other destructive forms of force. Be specific.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#355399 - 07/19/10 05:40 PM
Re: The world is changing...
[Re: thor]
|
unsupervised
Uber Sexy Canadian Member
Registered: 11/28/04
Posts: 9314
Loc: Reality
|
|
Offline
|
|
Iraq and Afghanistan
what's that you say? These are not Christian soldiers on a crusade?
Well, neither do the violent factions of Islam wish to convert infidels nor do they represent the vast majority of Muslims.
They are just a bunch of assholes, trying to gain political power through intimidation. If you buy into the fact that they actually represent Islam, then you have succumbed to their will. YOU have been converted.
_________________________
and there was light
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#355400 - 07/19/10 05:52 PM
Re: The world is changing...
[Re: unsupervised]
|
thor
longstanding member
Registered: 06/27/06
Posts: 2702
Loc: here...not there
|
|
Offline
|
|
Iraq and Afghanistan
what's that you say? These are not Christian soldiers on a crusade?
Well, neither do the violent factions of Islam wish to convert infidels nor do they represent the vast majority of Muslims.
They are just a bunch of assholes, trying to gain political power through intimidation. If you buy into the fact that they actually represent Islam, then you have succumbed to their will. YOU have been converted.
LOL! I don't see a Christian flag or emblem flying overhead in Afghanistan or Iraq...do you imagine you can see one? Christians on Crusade??? Chance must have rolled you a mighty big fattie for you to swallow that. No, my friend...it is YOU who have been converted.
The Christian religion in the past was used by men professing to speak for God...not by religious belief itself. In those days, very few folks ever read a Bible as it was relatively unavailable to them. Both the Koran and Bible ARE readily available and read today...and Chrisianity cannot ever again be used in such a manner since people now know better; they can read for themselves what is in the Bible. Muslims, too, can read what's in the Koran...and it calls for death and destruction. That's the difference. So, while conversion may or may not be at the heart of what is happening today...the Muslim religion is the fuel for the fire in a way it never was for Christianity, and never can be.
How do you think Muslims, at the time of the Crusades, would have responded to Christians setting up a church on a field of battle where Muslims had been slaughtered. According to you, they should have no qualms about it. You are sometimes a rediculous man.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#355401 - 07/19/10 06:37 PM
Re: The world is changing...
[Re: thor]
|
unsupervised
Uber Sexy Canadian Member
Registered: 11/28/04
Posts: 9314
Loc: Reality
|
|
Offline
|
|
sorry, too subtle?
your assertions that Islam is defined by the violent actions of the minority is as sensible as describing US troops as crusaders. Get it?
So, let me see if I have this straight. The violence has left Christianity but has entered Islam for the very same reason, ie a better and more broad understanding of the texts.
You are certainly more ridiculous than I.
Anyway, while you allow the Taliban to define Islam in your eyes, I shall allow Hutaree to define Christianity in mine. Is that fair (and current) enough for you?
_________________________
and there was light
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#355403 - 07/19/10 08:10 PM
Re: The world is changing...
[Re: thor]
|
Ineligible
Administrator
Registered: 08/09/01
Posts: 15528
|
|
Offline
|
|
Two blocks away is not "a few yards". Calling it so appears to be a deliberate deceit.
A prayer room is not a mosque, but it does appear from the story in Musalman Times (from people who would know the difference) that it will contain a mosque.
It will not be opening on September 11 of next year. How could it? They are going to build a 13-storey building. You can't do that in fourteen months. The Musalman Times report says they expect to open in 2013; the CNN report says they are still raising money and expect it will be 3-5 years. However, according to the Huffington Post story, "The Muslim organizations plan to announce the groundbreaking [my emphasis] later this year, possibly to coincide with the 10th anniversary of the attacks, Khan [the executive director of the American Society for Muslim Advancement] said. It could take up to three years to build the Cordoba House; the groups currently have no funds for the project but plan to start raising money, she said." I presume that is where the story comes from, but note that "later this year" would be the 9th anniversary, not the 10th. It would be, I think, an insensitive date; but American Muslims see the 9/11 attack as an attack on Muslims also: 300 of the victims, they say, were Muslim.
It's rather sickening when people say that in the name of personal freedom we must stop people worshipping in ways we don't like.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#355407 - 07/20/10 03:07 AM
Re: The world is changing...
[Re: Ineligible]
|
thor
longstanding member
Registered: 06/27/06
Posts: 2702
Loc: here...not there
|
|
Offline
|
|
It's rather sickening when people say that in the name of personal freedom we must stop people worshipping in ways we don't like.
I would agree...if that's what was happening here. It's not. What's happening here is a complete lack of respect for the 3,000 that died, for the circumstances under which they died, and for the survivors and family/friends of those who died.
Nice try.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#355413 - 07/20/10 05:55 AM
Re: The world is changing...
[Re: thor]
|
Ineligible
Administrator
Registered: 08/09/01
Posts: 15528
|
|
Offline
|
|
Whether something like that shows lack of respect is a matter of opinion. You are entitled to yours, but others are equally entitled to disagree.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#355414 - 07/20/10 09:28 AM
Re: The world is changing...
[Re: thor]
|
unsupervised
Uber Sexy Canadian Member
Registered: 11/28/04
Posts: 9314
Loc: Reality
|
|
Offline
|
|
I'm sure that in this regard you must find churches on Indian reserves to be equally, if not more distasteful.
_________________________
and there was light
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#355417 - 07/20/10 10:42 AM
Re: The world is changing...
[Re: unsupervised]
|
thor
longstanding member
Registered: 06/27/06
Posts: 2702
Loc: here...not there
|
|
Offline
|
|
I'm sure that in this regard you must find churches on Indian reserves to be equally, if not more distasteful.
Not so much churches as, say, Federal government buildings perhaps.
There does come a point, somewhere down the line, where such a thing becomes more acceptable. Wounds of all types heal over time. But putting up a Muslim building and mosque right next to where the Twin Towers were such a short time after the event is not only disprespectful...it's almost mocking those who died and their families.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#355425 - 07/20/10 02:38 PM
Re: The world is changing...
[Re: thor]
|
unsupervised
Uber Sexy Canadian Member
Registered: 11/28/04
Posts: 9314
Loc: Reality
|
|
Offline
|
|
ok, what's the most sensible no-go zone?
within 10 blocks after 10 years?
not within 2 blocks until 20 years?
or basically is it just a case that the sandniggers can do nothing right?
_________________________
and there was light
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#355427 - 07/20/10 02:50 PM
Re: The world is changing...
[Re: unsupervised]
|
thor
longstanding member
Registered: 06/27/06
Posts: 2702
Loc: here...not there
|
|
Offline
|
|
ok, what's the most sensible no-go zone?
within 10 blocks after 10 years?
not within 2 blocks until 20 years?
Depends. A lot of blacks still think whites owe them something over the issue of slavery even when no blacks that were slaves are still alive. This situation involves something many would consider to be worse than slavery. It involves death. With that in mind, I'd say more than one generation needs to pass...but that's just a guess.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#355434 - 07/20/10 08:43 PM
Re: The world is changing...
[Re: thor]
|
Ineligible
Administrator
Registered: 08/09/01
Posts: 15528
|
|
Offline
|
|
But you haven't specified the distance which is to be considered a Muslim no-worship zone during that generation.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
Moderator: Amanda, Amz, cenfath, ClassyBlackWoman, Ineligible, LoveBritish, NtroducingMyself, Roc, sdp, ~AngelWitch~
|
