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#353493 - 02/28/10 02:22 AM
School dances sure have changed.
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sdp
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I never had dances like this when I was a kid.
Dance
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#353495 - 02/28/10 02:42 AM
Re: School dances sure have changed.
[Re: sdp]
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Ineligible
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Nor I. The local schools here have been introducing formalities like débutantes into their school dances, customs quite out of alignment with the informality of modern life. This school has obviously taken a far more realistic approach.
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#353496 - 02/28/10 03:17 AM
Re: School dances sure have changed.
[Re: Ineligible]
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sdp
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IDK about realistic... but it's pretty disgusting.
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#353497 - 02/28/10 04:31 AM
Re: School dances sure have changed.
[Re: sdp]
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unsupervised
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holy fuckin freak show
is anyone able to pick up on some of the dialog?
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#353498 - 02/28/10 09:06 AM
Re: School dances sure have changed.
[Re: sdp]
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bobalicious
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Thats rather weird...
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#353502 - 02/28/10 04:17 PM
Re: School dances sure have changed.
[Re: sdp]
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StephieJ
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Ive never danced like that in my life
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#353509 - 02/28/10 09:11 PM
Re: School dances sure have changed.
[Re: sdp]
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JapanFan14
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Oh hey look it's my old elementary school back at home.
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#353516 - 03/01/10 09:50 AM
Re: School dances sure have changed.
[Re: sdp]
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OldFolks
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I find that kinda... echkkkk. Of course that's how they're going to be dancing in few years anyway but it's give me the same feeling as I get when looking at the little girl Jon Bennett type beauty pageants. Same thing just a different side of the coin.
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#353522 - 03/01/10 12:55 PM
Re: School dances sure have changed.
[Re: OldFolks]
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sdp
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Of course that's how they're going to be dancing in few years anyway
You really think that?.. I doubt it.
It seems to be a lax cultural thing going on here (where ever it is). I'll bet they have a very high rate of young teen pregnancies and resulting poverty.
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#353523 - 03/01/10 02:47 PM
Re: School dances sure have changed.
[Re: sdp]
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OldFolks
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As teens and young adults you don't think they will be dancing in some similarly lewd fashion?
I think the dancing here is symptomatic of a problem that has come to pervade all of society, that is the earlier and earlier sexualization of children. Be that by entering little girls in pageants and dressing them like miniature street walkers, pushing boys to be "macho," "players" and thus compete for sexual attention, or in this case provocative dancing, that in my opinion is as age inappropriate as many other activities.
I go and work out each day after work and, god help me, the girl who is in charge of the place in the evenings always has on Hanna Montana, The Wizards of Waverly Place or some other teenage type (made for teens) soap opera thing that comes on ABC Family (note Family there). She's 17 or 18, by the way, and has this shit blaring so she can hear it over the exercise equipment. I want to shoot out the TV. I don't know which kids show it was in, but in one of those three I noticed within less than five minutes the phrase "sleep with" was repeated some thirty times. And believe me when I say I'm being conservative saying thirty times. And these are shows that in my estimation are produced for 10 to 12 year old girls. Most of my wife's first grade girls don't miss them anyway, or so my wife says.
This is just an anecdote for which my intention is to show that this isn't just a problem isolated to small parts of our youth, be they these kids or beauty pageant girls. It is a problem that has become deeply ingrained in all of society.
When society moved from admiring stable adulthood to worshiping youth is when I believe the problem started. As adults began to cut out fun and stimulating interaction in their own lives the only "good" memories became memories to look back on, back at youth. As the drudgery and isolation of adulthood was cemented into society the importances of an "enjoyed" youth became ever increasingly important. It seems that many parents came to, and do, think of adolescence as the pinnacle of existence (via their own lives), and therefore must be pursued with unrelenting effort. Their children must be primed to be popular so that their adolescence is as fulfilling as adulthood is stale. Long and short parents and society pressure their kids to be "macho" or "sexy" to insure some position in some upper echelon of the high school pecking order. And there you go, the ever younger sexualization of children.
I remember when I was in the second or third grade we were forced to square dance. Now not only is square dancing ridiculous enough in itself but girls were still icky to me then. I didn't like even that kind of innocuous interaction and wondered then, as I do know, why it was that necessary. We would be horny teens in few years anyway who couldn't wait to dance with each other. What was point in forcing young kids together in a vaguely sexual situation? Is there any wisdom in pushing a kid, such as I was, into such sexual situations when my interest where my little cars and my mud pit and rocks and streams out back? I don't think so but society seems to think otherwise.
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#353530 - 03/01/10 08:27 PM
Re: School dances sure have changed.
[Re: OldFolks]
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thor
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Totally agree. Just one question: What social faction is largely in charge of/owns both the public education system and the television broadcasting companies?
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#353532 - 03/01/10 08:49 PM
Re: School dances sure have changed.
[Re: OldFolks]
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unsupervised
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intersting take on things. I can't fully agree on all points though.
There has certainly been a sexualization of youth over the past 2 generations or so. But there again, there was a significant infantization of adults over the previous couple centuries. Prior to the industrial revolution, teen motherhood was pretty standard. It has been observed by sociologist for years now that western culture has developed delayed or nonexistent adult hoods.
that said, the behavior in this video is not normal for today or yesterday. It's weird and still leaves me wishing for some kind of explanation behind the scene.
As for the media, well, it is what it is and it only sells what people buy. If we as parents allow any kind of educational void in our children's lives, the TV will fill it.
What social faction is largely in charge of/owns both the public education system
you
...and the television broadcasting companies
rich people
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#353534 - 03/01/10 10:45 PM
Re: School dances sure have changed.
[Re: sdp]
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damien
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That video is sick. Actually it pisses me off.
Those "teachers", workers, or whatever the hell they are should be fired on the spot...at the very least.
Whatever rationalization and explanation there might be for kids behaving that way, there is absolutely not excuse or rationalization for adults tolerating it, excusing it, and even - for Pete's sake - participating in it with them!
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#353545 - 03/02/10 01:49 AM
Re: School dances sure have changed.
[Re: unsupervised]
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thor
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What social faction is largely in charge of/owns both the public education system you
Heavily composed of liberals; who not only do the teaching, but control the curriculum as well. At least that's the way it is in this country.
...and the television broadcasting companies rich people
Rich liberals.
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#353547 - 03/02/10 06:54 AM
Re: School dances sure have changed.
[Re: thor]
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bobalicious
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Like Rupert Murdoch, the biggest liberal of them all!
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#353550 - 03/02/10 01:18 PM
Re: School dances sure have changed.
[Re: unsupervised]
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OldFolks
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Just to be clear my response was about the sexualization of pre-pubescent children not teens and pre-teens who are becoming aware and curious of sex themselves. I'm talking about parents who encourage their second grade girls to wear lipstick so they're "pretty" and their first grade boys to be "manly" to "empress the ladies."
>>>"It has been observed by sociologist for years now that western culture has developed delayed or nonexistent adult hoods."
On that, I completely agree with the sociologists, though I may differ on the cause and effects of it. I contend that somewhere along the line mature adulthood became a negative. Immature adults then started living in the glory days of their pasts and forsaking their present. Rather than revel in what they have and where they are they only revel in what they where and what they did. That's a fools endeavor, and so as they have kids and are living through them, making their kids things they're not or things they may not be ready for yet.
All these things I'm talking about, I'm talking about in a societal context. Kids aren't raised in vacuum, so the actions of one parent impart itself on the child of another. A few parents pressuring their kids to be "Ms Popularity" or "Mr Macho" effects the peers of that child as well.
I'm setting aside irresponsible parents for the sake of this discussion... irresponsible as in, "mommy was chasing daddy around with a rocket tied to her..." (yeah that was a real conversation) or "I'm leaving early today so I can see mommy before she has to go to jail." Rather, I'm thinking about "responsible" parents, upstanding member of the community (relative to the community of course), types, mainly because they seem to be the worst about pushing sexualization on their kids. They seem to be the ones who forgo a real life, they seem to be the ones who most try to relive their youth through their kids and they are the ones that have the Disney Channel and such that produces these "kids" shows that their boys, and most especially, their girls are emulating.
I just wish I could tell the parents to get a life and enjoy it. Don't sit at home thinking about days gone by. Don't live through your kid. Be an example for your kid so they will know how to be an adult and how to enjoy it, even when dealing with the shit that life is inevitably going to throw at you. Get up, go biking, go dancing, go out with another couple, go to the movies have a few drinks and pull the stick out of your ass. Quit micro managing your kids and let them be kids.
>>>"It's weird and still leaves me wishing for some kind of explanation behind the scene."
Me as well. "Picture convictions" always remind me of the Calvin & Hobbs where Calvin had Hobbs taking pictures of him with a clean room (he had just shoved the shit out of frame) and with him holding a bat and glove (instead of his usual mask and Calvin ball) so that he could later in life show what a well adjusted, picturesque child he was. Without context any situation can be construed to impart the meaning an editor wishes to convey.
Though it's hard to imagine any rational for this video, for all I know, me being without sound, this could be a ring of daycare kiddie molesters it may not be sanctioned at all by any authority.
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#353558 - 03/02/10 03:54 PM
Re: School dances sure have changed.
[Re: bobalicious]
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thor
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Like Rupert Murdoch, the biggest liberal of them all!
The exception that proves the rule.
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#353561 - 03/02/10 06:28 PM
Re: School dances sure have changed.
[Re: thor]
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Ineligible
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That aphorism "The exception proves the rule" is almost universally misunderstood. It dates back to when "prove" meant "test" (as it does in the King James Bible). All it means is that an apparent exception is the test of a rule - one must examine it closely to see if it is a real exception, in which case the rule is disproved (in the modern sense), or whether it is not in fact an exception.
The idea that a real exception actually "proves" a rule in the modern sense of "prove" is sheer nonsense. It disproves it.
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#353568 - 03/02/10 10:05 PM
Re: School dances sure have changed.
[Re: thor]
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bobalicious
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The exception that proves the rule.
How about Disney? Although it may be perceived as irrelevant, Disney has a very strong conservative base and has a lot of influence over future generations.
And there is also WorldNetDaily, possibly THE most biased right-wing major news outlet.
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#353573 - 03/02/10 11:01 PM
Re: School dances sure have changed.
[Re: bobalicious]
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thor
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The exception that proves the rule.
How about Disney? Although it may be perceived as irrelevant, Disney has a very strong conservative base and has a lot of influence over future generations.
You're a bit behind the times, I'm afraid. The current incarnation of Disney would have old Walt turning over in his grave.
And there is also WorldNetDaily, possibly THE most biased right-wing major news outlet.
There are certainly some non-liberal news outlets...but I was speaking of the most influential form of media on the general public: the TV.
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#353575 - 03/03/10 03:14 AM
Re: School dances sure have changed.
[Re: thor]
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JapanFan14
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Walt Disney was a racist... and obsessed with the stereotypical housewife. He was turning in his grave when they made Mulan and The Princess and the Frog.
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#353580 - 03/03/10 10:21 AM
Re: School dances sure have changed.
[Re: JapanFan14]
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StephieJ
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I love Walt Disney.. he created some of the BEST movies of all time!
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#353581 - 03/03/10 10:31 AM
Re: School dances sure have changed.
[Re: JapanFan14]
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thor
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Walt Disney was a racist... and obsessed with the stereotypical housewife. He was turning in his grave when they made Mulan and The Princess and the Frog.
I honestly doubt you know anything about Walt Disney beyond what you've been told to believe. Either way, it has nothing to do with the fact that, although Disney continues to make movies aimed at children, they have long since abandoned the family values they were once known for.
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#353582 - 03/03/10 10:33 AM
Re: School dances sure have changed.
[Re: StephieJ]
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thor
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I love Walt Disney.. he created some of the BEST movies of all time!
Even I had to go pick up a copy of Fantasia when it was released for the last time.
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#353588 - 03/03/10 01:50 PM
Re: School dances sure have changed.
[Re: thor]
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JapanFan14
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Your bullshit is getting madd old. Move on to something new. And this wasn't in class this was research I did on my own. But that doesn't count either.
I love Disney movies but it still doesn't mean Walt wasn't racist and stuck in a stereotypical mindset. It's like when people get defensive when they hear that Charles Darwin was racist. Doesn't mean he wasn't intellectual but he is what he is. It's not that big of a deal.
although Disney continues to make movies aimed at children, they have long since abandoned the family values they were once known for.
Which ANIMATED disney movies are you referring to? I suggest you watch The Princess and the Frog. It was a nice blast of fresh air.
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#353590 - 03/03/10 03:11 PM
Re: School dances sure have changed.
[Re: JapanFan14]
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thor
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And this wasn't in class this was research I did on my own. But that doesn't count either.
Where did you get your information? Mine is from living through those times, reading the (then) less biased articles in magazines and newspapers before there was ever an apparent liberal agenda to bias them...something you couldn't possibly have done because you're simply too young to have escaped the present-day bias.
Move on to something new.
Took the words out of my mouth. Only you could/would try to turn a discussion on signs of the times into a thread on racism. You don't seem to be able to leave that subject alone for long, and you don't even stop to wonder why you can't. Your demeanor since addling off to "higher education" has become increasingly angry and hostile...as if you've been made to feel the victim of thousands of years of opression (though you haven't lived nearly that long). Don't you ever wonder why you feel the way you do? Have you ever stopped to consider the possible reasons why some folks might want to make you feel that way over time by continually feeding you a twisted image of the reality you live in? Most people, when I was your age, were at least aware enough to be asking themselves those kinds of questions. Has the ability/desire to do that died somewhere along the line?
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#353593 - 03/03/10 05:54 PM
Re: School dances sure have changed.
[Re: JapanFan14]
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StephieJ
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Why do u think he was racist???
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#353594 - 03/03/10 07:05 PM
Re: School dances sure have changed.
[Re: thor]
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Ineligible
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Mine is from living through those times, reading the (then) less biased articles in magazines and newspapers before there was ever an apparent liberal agenda to bias them...something you couldn't possibly have done because you're simply too young to have escaped the present-day bias.
Walt Disney died in 1966. I don't think you would have been doing much serious reading then.
If Abi did her research properly, she would not have just read current writing, but would have read material from the time. Old writings, even in magazines and newspapers, don't just all disappear. You could read those old articles yourself - you might be surprised at what you find.
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#353596 - 03/03/10 07:20 PM
Re: School dances sure have changed.
[Re: JapanFan14]
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unsupervised
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Charles Darwin was racist
evidence please
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#353598 - 03/03/10 07:35 PM
Re: School dances sure have changed.
[Re: StephieJ]
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damien
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Why do u think he was racist???
Thank you Steph for demonstrating the more rational and helpful response to Abi's assertion.
Good questions are always more productive than reactionary diatribes.
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#353602 - 03/03/10 07:56 PM
Re: School dances sure have changed.
[Re: Ineligible]
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JapanFan14
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Thank you. I didn't know it was a shocker that Walt Disney was a racist. It's not his fault, in his time many people were so it's not that big of a deal. It's just that many movies that he came out with played to the stereotypes that were put on Negroes, Indians, Orientals, Arabs etc in many of his movies. Don't get me wrong I love Disney movies, but it doesn't mean I agree with everything that was put in the movies.
Same goes with Charles Darwin. The man was absolutely brilliant but for his time it was reasonable for him to be racist. Which he was. It's not something to go "OMG NO HE'S NOT!" It's like ooh okay well yeah just look at the times. Thomas Jefferson was racist too. Another big shocker?
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#353603 - 03/03/10 08:06 PM
Re: School dances sure have changed.
[Re: thor]
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JapanFan14
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Where did you get your information? Mine is from living through those times, reading the (then) less biased articles in magazines and newspapers before there was ever an apparent liberal agenda to bias them...something you couldn't possibly have done because you're simply too young to have escaped the present-day bias.
You're not ancient. I have family in their 90s that have stories that will flip your world upside down. You really need to stop with this "i'm older than you so I know better". It's getting a bit ridiculous and I'm having a hard time taking you seriously. And yes I did get my research from OLD works and direct quotes.
our demeanor since addling off to "higher education" has become increasingly angry and hostile...as if you've been made to feel the victim of thousands of years of opression (though you haven't lived nearly that long).
This is absolutely hilarious. I'm angry and hostile? And all this time I keep being told that I need to start learning to be more aggressive and taking things seriously. I have been absent from this board for weeks now. If anyone sounds bitter it's you. I'm enjoying school, and life for as long as I'm blessed with it.
Don't you ever wonder why you feel the way you do? Have you ever stopped to consider the possible reasons why some folks might want to make you feel that way over time by continually feeding you a twisted image of the reality you live in? Most people, when I was your age, were at least aware enough to be asking themselves those kinds of questions. Has the ability/desire to do that died somewhere along the line?
Sir... I recently lost 3 cousins, 1 uncle, and 3 aunts in Port-au-Prince with my two baby cousins and my mom's sister still missing. I've been through hell and back again since the end of December. And I've STILL managed to keep a smile on my face and peace in my mind and love on my heart as I support other Haitians who have lost. I'm a cheerful human being as I've been told countless times. Yes, I've been depressed, but I'm getting through. Don't know what you see. And I really don't know what world you live in. I've gone through my oppression and still am. Not nearly as bad as my mother and the generations before me, but the fact that you think my age has something to do with how I act and what I experience. Maybe you still have some growing up to do AS OLD as you are.
No disrespect, Sir. 
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"Isso é como nós latinas/meninas pretas fazemos. Vá ou flua.. ya digg?"
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#353613 - 03/04/10 03:07 AM
Re: School dances sure have changed.
[Re: JapanFan14]
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Ineligible
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I'm so sorry to hear about your family losses, Abi. To lose one family member is bad enough - to lose so many must be very hard to bear.
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#353615 - 03/04/10 03:32 AM
Re: School dances sure have changed.
[Re: Ineligible]
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JapanFan14
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It really is. I still have a hard time believing it. Cause it just seems so surreal.
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#353616 - 03/04/10 11:23 AM
Re: School dances sure have changed.
[Re: JapanFan14]
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thor
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It really is. I still have a hard time believing it. Cause it just seems so surreal.
I suppose it would be. Believe it or not, I am sorry you've lost family members. I've lost a few myself (though not so many at once). While this makes it understandable for you to be venting around here, it certainly doesn't justify bad behavior.
As for your comments concerning my age, you will understand...in time. Every generation since the dawn of time thinks they're on equal footing with their elders...and every single one realizes how wrong they were when they actually reach that age themselves. It's not a matter of perspective...it's a matter of experience; of which there is no substitute for. It's just the way things are. My point to bob was that the Disney of today is not the Disney of many years ago...they've done a 180. Whether Walt Disney was himself racist or not has nothing to do with that point, or the discussion in general. Usually on message boards, folks with separate points to make start their own threads on it. This thread was about how twisted our education system has become. I don't see the connection to Walt Disney (or anybody) being racist.
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#353617 - 03/04/10 11:30 AM
Re: School dances sure have changed.
[Re: Ineligible]
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thor
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Walt Disney died in 1966. I don't think you would have been doing much serious reading then.
Either you're not very bright, or you intentionally miss the point so you can post something derogatory. The company Walt Disney started carried on after his death. (Is this news to you?) The company did not begin to change immediately...it happened over time. This is what I said...not that I was around when Disney died. Perhaps you'd benefit by doing a little research on matters yourself before trying to add something useful to the discussion? (If that was ever your intent.)
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#353620 - 03/04/10 12:21 PM
Re: School dances sure have changed.
[Re: thor]
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unsupervised
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naw, it's just your ancient ideas
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#353621 - 03/04/10 12:27 PM
Re: School dances sure have changed.
[Re: unsupervised]
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thor
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I'll show you my birthday if you show me yours. 
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#353622 - 03/04/10 12:32 PM
Re: School dances sure have changed.
[Re: thor]
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sdp
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This thread was about how twisted our education system has become.
Well it wasn't really about the education system and/or the media at all although you have really turned it into that.
If you look at the video a bit more closely, you will notice a large range of ages of the children (perhaps 3 to mid teens?). I seriously doubt it is or has anything to do with a school. A couple of the girls had tiaras on their head. I would venture to say that it was some birthday party or some other type of kids celebration.
The morality of the scene is atrocious in my opinion. What was the influence? I don't know. Was it media? Perhaps... but you really love to drive things to the extreme thor.
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#353623 - 03/04/10 12:43 PM
Re: School dances sure have changed.
[Re: sdp]
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thor
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Was it media? Perhaps... but you really love to drive things to the extreme thor.
Extreme compared to what? Without a reference point, the term is meaningless. If you took this little snippet back just 50 years (a relatively short time-period in the grand scheme of things), I think any adults present would have been thrown in jail. Would you consider that extreme also? Again, it depends on your point of reference. And if that reference point is removed or nullified somehow...
One more extreme point. Consider what was going on with the culture at any point in history where this snippet would not have seemed extreme (if you can find any)...then watch what happens to that society shortly thereafter.
BTW, at that age, do you really think boys and girls would be found together? Boys were icky and girls had cooties at that age...remember? And I saw only one adult briefly present...though there may have been a second one running the camera (assuming it was not on a stand). This looks like a school of some kind to me. Does that look like some kind of person's home to you? I'll have another look later.
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#353626 - 03/04/10 01:25 PM
Re: School dances sure have changed.
[Re: thor]
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unsupervised
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actually, it didn't look too different from the back yards I've seen in the Caribbean. Quite reminiscent of a place we stopped for a beer in St Lucia... a buddy of the buss driver was having a party.
That's why I was hoping someone might be able to pick up on some of the dialogue in the video. Nothing makes it excusable but I'm still curious as to the back story.
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#353628 - 03/04/10 01:34 PM
Re: School dances sure have changed.
[Re: thor]
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sdp
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Again, when I say extreme.. I mean you tend take things too far as in your posts.. Case in point... You are questioning me as to whether this behavior is acceptable and are presenting various scenarios.. Dude.. settle down.. Of course it's not acceptable.. now or ever.
And again.. I really do think this is some birthday party at someones home.. See the streamers hanging from the ceiling in the beginning??.. Why would a girl be wearing a tiara and carry a wand in school?
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#353629 - 03/04/10 03:04 PM
Re: School dances sure have changed.
[Re: sdp]
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thor
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And again.. I really do think this is some birthday party at someones home.. See the streamers hanging from the ceiling in the beginning??.. Why would a girl be wearing a tiara and carry a wand in school?
You might be right...I'll have to take another look. At that age, I'm sure it could just as easily be a birthday celebration (if that's what it is) at a school or maybe a daycare of some kind. However, it was you who first seemed to suggest it was at a school (re: the thread title).
Of course it's not acceptable.. now or ever.
I sometimes think that, in this overly permissive society that has been allowed to develop, a light needs to be shined, blaringly, on those things that go way too far. If you choose to call that extreme, than so be it. Things like this video are an indication of the direction our society is going, and a harbinger of what is to come.
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#353630 - 03/04/10 03:34 PM
Re: School dances sure have changed.
[Re: thor]
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sdp
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Becasue that is the title of the video... I still doubt it has anything to do with a school.. The person who posted the video was probably just joking with the title.
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#353633 - 03/04/10 04:02 PM
Re: School dances sure have changed.
[Re: thor]
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damien
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This thread was about how twisted our education system has become.
Actually, it was about a bunch of ho's perping on little kids.
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#353635 - 03/04/10 04:09 PM
Re: School dances sure have changed.
[Re: damien]
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thor
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This thread was about how twisted our education system has become. Actually, it was about a bunch of ho's perping on little kids.
Possibly...the video title would seem to suggest otherwise. We're not sure yet, and neither are you.
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#353640 - 03/04/10 06:17 PM
Re: School dances sure have changed.
[Re: thor]
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damien
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No, it's a bunch of ho's perping on little kids.
I can imagine, based on what I saw, any "context" that would change my mind about that.
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#353641 - 03/04/10 08:15 PM
Re: School dances sure have changed.
[Re: sdp]
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Ineligible
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We really know next to nothing about the video. It does look set up to me - the children have obviously been taught the moves.
Since we don't know that this is from the US and it seems likely it isn't, there is little point analysing it from the standpoint of American culture. The tensions in American culture between puritan roots and a philosophy of pursuit of happiness, between opposing ethoi of moral rigour and libertarianism, and their effects on attitudes to childhood, is an interesting discussion but probably has little relevance to the video.
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