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#355502 - 07/24/10 08:13 AM
Re: Do you fear Hell?
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bobalicious
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But someone could be honestly sorry for what they've done simply because they know that they'll be sent to Hell. They may not be repenting to try to get out of it, but instead are sorry that what they've done will cause them to suffer rather than because they know it was wrong to do.
Does that make sense?
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#355509 - 07/24/10 06:10 PM
Re: Do you fear Hell?
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bobalicious
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If we go by the global distribution of religion and systems of belief, I'd say Christians only have a 1 in 3 chance of being right
If only reality was Democratic, it would sort everything out!
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#355511 - 07/24/10 06:25 PM
Re: Do you fear Hell?
[Re: bobalicious]
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Ineligible
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Yes, but repentance is much more than regret or feeling sorry. It requires acknowledgement of wrongdoing. It would also not be repentance if the person, on finding they had recovered, didn't try to live life differently.
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#355514 - 07/24/10 07:46 PM
Re: Do you fear Hell?
[Re: bobalicious]
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unsupervised
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If only reality was Democratic, it would sort everything out!
naw, that wouldn't work because the "why's everybody always pickin on me" Christian majority would run the place (Oh wait, never mind)
What would be nice is if we could all just do our own thing after we die. God knows we're forced to do every-body-else's thing while we're alive
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#355515 - 07/25/10 01:59 AM
Re: Do you fear Hell?
[Re: bobalicious]
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damien
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So someone who has never heard of God does not suffer from eternal separation,
I never said that.
but someone who has but rejects Him does. yes
Is the decision permanent? I've often heard of atheists who later in life have become Christians, but had previously denied God. Is this denial revoked? Of course it's not permanent. God wants us to accept Him. At whatever point it happens. Remember the story of Saul/Paul? He not only denied Jesus was the Messiah, he killed those who accepted him. He then went on to do some pretty amazing things.
What about people from other religions who openly say that your God is a false one. Will they suffer the eternal separation or do you believe, as Eddie does, that all of the different religions are really worshipping the same God but in a different manifestation, therefore they are not technically denying God but are simply unaware of his various forms? If they deny that Jesus Christ is the son of God and refuse to accept him, they are without hope.
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#355517 - 07/25/10 03:23 AM
Re: Do you fear Hell?
[Re: damien]
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unsupervised
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If they deny that Jesus Christ is the son of God and refuse to accept him, they are without hope. and therein lies the problem. I respect your conviction to faith as I respect thor's (though the two of you disagree at times) So I wonder, would you give your life for your faith? Would you take a life for your faith? Dare I ask the same questions of thor?
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#355520 - 07/25/10 02:12 PM
Re: Do you fear Hell?
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damien
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and therein lies the problem. I respect your conviction to faith as I respect thor's (though the two of you disagree at times) So I wonder, would you give your life for your faith? Would you take a life for your faith? Dare I ask the same questions of thor?
I'm not sure what's behind your questions, but I'll answer anyway. Yes, I like to think I would give my life for Christ, if that's what you mean. I can't know for certain. It's never been tested. But I would like to think I would.
As for taking a life for my faith? No. I can't see where that would ever even be necessary. Why do you ask?
Sometimes I think living for Christ is more difficult than dying for him. But, like I said, I've only ever made an attempt at the former.
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#355521 - 07/25/10 02:16 PM
Re: Do you fear Hell?
[Re: damien]
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bobalicious
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Of course it's not permanent. God wants us to accept Him. At whatever point it happens.
What about denying the Holy Spirit, the act that the Bible defines as the one unforgivable sin.
But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation. - Mark 3:29
What about people from other religions who openly say that your God is a false one. Will they suffer the eternal separation or do you believe, as Eddie does, that all of the different religions are really worshipping the same God but in a different manifestation, therefore they are not technically denying God but are simply unaware of his various forms? If they deny that Jesus Christ is the son of God and refuse to accept him, they are without hope.
So two thirds of our planet's current population are automatically going to be sent to Hell because they have different religious beliefs that, due to the nature of these beliefs, make the default assumption that Jesus cannot be the son of God?
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#355524 - 07/25/10 09:31 PM
Re: Do you fear Hell?
[Re: bobalicious]
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Ineligible
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The context of the unforgivable sin suggests that it means believing ultimate good to be evil. It could be said that this leaves no room for God at all. But I don't know that anyone really understands the unforgivable sin.
So two thirds of our planet's current population are automatically going to be sent to Hell because they have different religious beliefs that, due to the nature of these beliefs, make the default assumption that Jesus cannot be the son of God? I have a lot of difficulty with that myself. For a start, the great majority of those of other religions or none are not really aware of the Christian Gospel. They nearly all know that Christianity exists, but have little knowledge of what it teaches.
Although many strict Protestants believe that to be saved one must die a full Christian, this leaves a very large number of people without hope of salvation, which seems to me inconsistent with 1 Tim 2:3-4, where God is described as wanting all to be saved.
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#355527 - 07/26/10 12:16 AM
Re: Do you fear Hell?
[Re: bobalicious]
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damien
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Romans 1 suggests that God has revealed himself to all men, so that none are without excuse. That's why I mentioned fictional Willy Nubu earlier. Even those in the world (and there are many)who have never heard of Jesus or the "Christian gospel" have a concept of God in whatever way He has revealed Himself to them. So, obviously, they can't be held responsible for how they do or don't respond to a gospel they've never heard. But they do know God on some level, and will be held accountable for whether or not they glorified Him.
So two thirds of our planet's current population are automatically going to be sent to Hell because they have different religious beliefs that, due to the nature of these beliefs, make the default assumption that Jesus cannot be the son of God?
If they have a "religious belief" that causes them to deny that Jesus is the son of God then, yes, they won't spend eternity with him. I believe that's what the Bible teaches.
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#355532 - 07/26/10 03:19 PM
Re: Do you fear Hell?
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bobalicious
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The context of the unforgivable sin suggests that it means believing ultimate good to be evil.
So by this interpretation, someone who does not believe in God or the trinity cannot commit the unforgivable sin as they are denying the existence of such a being which negates the possibility of believing it to be evil. Right?
So two thirds of our planet's current population are automatically going to be sent to Hell because they have different religious beliefs that, due to the nature of these beliefs, make the default assumption that Jesus cannot be the son of God? I have a lot of difficulty with that myself. For a start, the great majority of those of other religions or none are not really aware of the Christian Gospel. They nearly all know that Christianity exists, but have little knowledge of what it teaches. Although many strict Protestants believe that to be saved one must die a full Christian, this leaves a very large number of people without hope of salvation, which seems to me inconsistent with 1 Tim 2:3-4, where God is described as wanting all to be saved.
What is a full Christian?
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#355533 - 07/26/10 03:32 PM
Re: Do you fear Hell?
[Re: damien]
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bobalicious
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Romans 1 suggests that God has revealed himself to all men, so that none are without excuse. That's why I mentioned fictional Willy Nubu earlier. Even those in the world (and there are many)who have never heard of Jesus or the "Christian gospel" have a concept of God in whatever way He has revealed Himself to them. So, obviously, they can't be held responsible for how they do or don't respond to a gospel they've never heard. But they do know God on some level, and will be held accountable for whether or not they glorified Him.
If they are judged on whether they glorified God, then what point is there in accepting Jesus as your lord and saviour? If you know about Jesus then you need to accept him to get into Heaven, its an extra criteria that isn't required of others. If I was a Christian and actually believed this, I would be campaigning to stop missionaries from spreading the word of the New Testament as it just seems to spread extra demands for getting into Heaven and is decreasing people's chances of being saved.
So two thirds of our planet's current population are automatically going to be sent to Hell because they have different religious beliefs that, due to the nature of these beliefs, make the default assumption that Jesus cannot be the son of God? If they have a "religious belief" that causes them to deny that Jesus is the son of God then, yes, they won't spend eternity with him. I believe that's what the Bible teaches.
I just find that to be despicable.
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#355544 - 07/26/10 08:42 PM
Re: Do you fear Hell?
[Re: bobalicious]
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Ineligible
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So by this interpretation, someone who does not believe in God or the trinity cannot commit the unforgivable sin as they are denying the existence of such a being which negates the possibility of believing it to be evil. Right? I think that may well be so, but I don't really understand the unforgivable sin.
What is a full Christian? I used that vague term because not all churches have exactly the same view. The classical view is a baptized Christian; however some Protestant churches put the emphasis on a personal acceptance of Jesus.
Many Christians, I should point out, believe non-Christians may be saved.
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#355548 - 07/26/10 09:25 PM
Re: Do you fear Hell?
[Re: bobalicious]
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damien
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If they are judged on whether they glorified God, then what point is there in accepting Jesus as your lord and saviour? If you know about Jesus then you need to accept him to get into Heaven, its an extra criteria that isn't required of others. If I was a Christian and actually believed this, I would be campaigning to stop missionaries from spreading the word of the New Testament as it just seems to spread extra demands for getting into Heaven and is decreasing people's chances of being saved.
I think you've got it backwards! I'd much rather be held to the standard of accepting Christ than to the standard Willy Nubu is held to. When Paul talks about "glorifying God", there's a lot more there than what my post suggested. (My fault.) Awareness of God comes with an awareness of right and wrong. The standard is total perfection. Would you want to be held to that standard? That's why Jesus died to bridge that gap. So we wouldn't be judged by our lack of righteousness, but can take on his.
If they have a "religious belief" that causes them to deny that Jesus is the son of God then, yes, they won't spend eternity with him. I believe that's what the Bible teaches. I just find that to be despicable. Why? This doesn't exclude anyone outside of his/her decision on the matter.
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#355549 - 07/27/10 01:20 AM
Re: Do you fear Hell?
[Re: damien]
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unsupervised
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this really can't be ignored
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#355550 - 07/27/10 11:51 AM
Re: Do you fear Hell?
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OldFolks
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The beast has revealed himself to you... perhaps the beast is Bob. Has Bob revealed himself to you? LoL
Do you think perpetual happiness in the Garden of Eden maybe got so boring that eating the apple was justified?
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#355555 - 07/27/10 09:53 PM
Re: Do you fear Hell?
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damien
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Oh My Jeepers! I'm still laughing at that...erm...I mean...I'm not the Devil...I mean....WORSHIP ME!!!
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#355563 - 07/28/10 10:45 AM
Re: Do you fear Hell?
[Re: TangledWeb]
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OldFolks
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Yeah, I mean isn't enjoyment and bliss as much a product of dissatisfaction and misery as they are delight in the actuality of the present? How could you be happy being happy all the time? It leaves nothing to strive for.
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#355575 - 07/28/10 10:45 PM
Re: Do you fear Hell?
[Re: OldFolks]
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damien
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Yeah, I mean isn't enjoyment and bliss as much a product of dissatisfaction and misery as they are delight in the actuality of the present? How could you be happy being happy all the time? It leaves nothing to strive for. I think you've got that backwards. Dissatisfaction is the absence of something, namely satisfaction.
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#355581 - 07/29/10 11:06 AM
Re: Do you fear Hell?
[Re: damien]
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OldFolks
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I don't know. How can you ever enjoy what you have if you've never been without?
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#355585 - 07/29/10 08:27 PM
Re: Do you fear Hell?
[Re: OldFolks]
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damien
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I don't know. How can you ever enjoy what you have if you've never been without? Remember when you first started having sex with someone? Did you enjoy it?
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