here's a dose of reality for you... maybe even 2 or 3

-they are not building a mosque. It's a community centre with basketball courts , a music school and prayer rooms.

-it's not a ground zero but several blocks away.

-there is an actual mosque closer to ground zero and has existed there since before the construction of the trade center.

-The imam working with this project is Sufi - a moderate, accepting and spiritual sect of Islam (and therefore a target of hate a violence by the same extremist who hate you)

-you will believe any piece of hate-speech, bigoted propaganda that comes your way. You are being indoctrinated by the exact same tactics that the Nazis used to convince normal, everyday Germans that the persecution of the Jews was actually reasonable. Enjoy.

2 - Since when has Obama been trying to ram it down people's throats? Have you read what he has said on the issue or just a bastardised version of it?

Your in TN aren't you damien? What's going on with protest about the community center the local mosque is wanting to build in Murefeesboro?

Your in TN aren't you damien? What's going on with protest about the community center the local mosque is wanting to build in Murefeesboro?

It is also standard practice for Muslims to build mosques in territories they conquer

The mosque placed in Spain, after they conquered there, goes by the same name as the one they intend to call this "community center" at ground zero.

>A community center with a mosque in it

no, you are making that up.

>It is also standard practice for Muslims to build mosques in territories they conquer (yes, conquer by violent means.)

so is every single church in America, or did you forget there were people with religion there before the Christians?

>The mosque placed in Spain, after they conquered there, goes by the same name as the one they intend to call this "community center" at ground zero. The intended message to the Muslim population of the world is clear.

Ineligible beat me to the answer there (thanks Pete)

Yes, also the actual Mosque in Manhattan is in regular, daily use. (ooo scary)

So, you go ahead and chase those damn sandniggers outta yer back yard there Bubba while you try to vote for someone willing to chase freedom of worship outta yer constitution
eeeehaw!

One situation remains germaine to the modern world we live in...the other does not.

You believe that Muslims seek to take over the West and Christians do not seek to take over the Muslim world...

Their move to take over the world is happening as we speak. The only question is how long you and folks just like you will remain in denial. Hopefully not so long as you find them knocking on your door.

Ramadan road trip: Moving melting pot finds peace, love and animosity

I think I'll grab a Christian buddy, a black man, and a Muslim, and do a 50 churches in 50 days trip through Syria. See what kind of reactions I get.

Interesting story, but I gave up halfway through. Too darned long to read tonight!

Ya know that might be a kind of an interesting trip in a more equally secular yet no less Islamic country, kinda like Turkey.

Of course history must be studied and not be erased. The trouble is, thor, that you don't seem to apply the same principle to what actions Christians have taken, past and present. When the two are compared I'm afraid we don't come out well.

I don't think it helps to say "that was the Catholic church" - the Catholic church was the Christian church in the West until the Reformation.

Muslims will point out with at least equal force that today's Muslim fundamentalists do not represent mainstream Islam.

Nor can you argue very convincingly that the Quran's theology is more aggressive than the Bible's...

I think I'll grab a Christian buddy, a black man, and a Muslim, and do a 50 churches in 50 days trip through Syria. See what kind of reactions I get.

As far as the present is concerned, there is absolutely no contest.

Wow. Just, wow.

You seem to insist on being stuck in the past.

And the Koran tells them to lie to infidels just like you. Do you actually believe you're special somehow?

Maybe not...but this guy can. . . [etc]

When looking to bolster your case, you seem to look for people who already strongly support your own views. The result is that you have put up a number of liars and nut-cases who offend principles of truth and reason, and thereby end up weakening your argument in the eyes of others.

I haven't seen any evidence that they are familiar with mainstream Islamic Quranic exegesis...

...which is what is needed here.

And the Koran tells them to lie to infidels just like you. Do you actually believe you're special somehow?

...and the biggest liars are always the first to call others liars. Keep that in mind next time you think about pointing the finger at somebody else.

Spoken in classic liberal format. Instead of attacking the position, you attack the people...and the biggest liars are always the first to call others liars. Keep that in mind next time you think about pointing the finger at somebody else.

As I said, I don't agree with everything he says...but what he says concerning Islam is spot on.

And you can't deny it, or you already would have.

That's because you aren't trying to find it...you'd rather not find it.

What was needed was a glimpse of what life is like among Muslims once their percentage of the population grows beyond a certain point.

I think bob has disposed of that comment very nicely. Hoist by your own petard!

Has it ever crossed your mind, thor, that you damage your favourite causes by arguing for them? For each person, there are some things he/she shouldn't do, due to sheer incompetence. In my case the list is quite long, and includes a lot of handyman tasks where I make what I am trying to fix much worse. Reasoning is not your strong suit.

Spoken in classic liberal format. Instead of attacking the position, you attack the people...and the biggest liars are always the first to call others liars. Keep that in mind next time you think about pointing the finger at somebody else.

As I said, I don't agree with everything he says...but what he says concerning Islam is spot on. And you can't deny it, or you already would have.

thor, I know some small churches teach that - but Paul had a different view. He cared very much what other people thought. He told the Corinthians, "So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and some who do not understand or some unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind?" (1Cor 14:23).

Paul also said, "Though I am free and belong to no man, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law. To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some." (1Cor 9:19-22).

Doesn't that suggest a different attitude?

I am very much afraid that you decide whether something 'rings true' by the test that it must fail to disagree with any of your prior views.

That Walid Shoebat is an ex-Muslim terrorist seems very doubtful - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walid_Shoebat

Do you always have fear of what you are hoping for? I'd see a psychatrist if I were you.

The point you attempt to skirt is HE KNOWS BETTER THAN YOU!

Try it and you may not come back alive.

You have got to be fucking kidding me. What kind of damn ignorance are you spewing? My wife and I have traveled to Turkey, Syria, Palestine, Jordan and Lebanon multiple times, and we are clearly still "alive."

You have got to be fucking kidding me. What kind of damn ignorance are you spewing? My wife and I have traveled to Turkey, Syria, Palestine, Jordan and Lebanon multiple times, and we are clearly still "alive."

It's called humor, pal. I know Muslims and Christians both have that. So settle down and look at the context of someone's statements before you accuse them of being ignorant. Otherwise, you'll only come across as shallow and knee-jerk.

Try it and you may not come back alive.

Damien, I think Kazak's response was to the highlighted portion of the following exchange between you and thor:


Whether he knew it was thor who said it and not you I don't know, then again I may not know shit as seems to be the case lately.

Yes, I was replying to thor's post. I don't see how damien could have been confused, unless he truly thinks thor's post was humorous.

Maybe Damien was confused because you quoted both him and Thor, without clarifying to whom you were responding. And no, Damien rarely thinks Thor's posts are humorous.

That being said, thanks for the clarification. I retract my reaction.

In the future, I hope you do give attention to how you come across to others. Even on a message board. You'll get a better response from people and probably enjoy the experience more (which I hope you'll stick around and do here.) It's a lesson I had to learn myself.